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stop whinin', eskelinen
Something has been bothering me a while, and I have finally figured out what it is. It might make me sound whiny, but I am okay with that possibility.
Basically, it's this: Why do we care what (if any) "difference" there is between narrative and games?
I don't know. Maybe I'm being narrow-minded (or an English major), here, but it seems really obvious to me that there is a narrative element to video games--duh, of course there is. That's what happens when people do things in fictional universes: in some form or another, stories develop--whether they're plot-based, character-based, or world-based, there is some kind of narrative. Even in that James Bond game. Even in snowboarding games. It may not be a traditional narrative, but to try to divorce games from narrative seems pointless.
And, see, I think that all of the ludology guys know it. You can see narrative sneaking around between the lines of those Eskelinen and Aarseth essays. They're fighting it, and they get kind of weasel-y and they backtrack and redefine to get out of it, but it's there.
Besides, it's not like we can possibly study all games, or even all computer games, using the same mindset. Chess (Aarseth's example of something that hasn't got a "text") has no more in common with "The Sims" than "Pride and Prejudice" does. How could we possibly lump together Tetris, World of Warcraft and Facade?
So what I can't tell is whether or not this question of literally whether or not we can talk about narratives while we're talking about games is actually just an academic catfight, because that's the impression I get from First Person. The only reason some of them seem to care is so that they can piss all over gaming so that those other guys won't try to claim it as their territory (like all of Eskelinen's talk about "resisting and beating" the narratologists, and calling his paper a "survival game").
Questions about the nature of narrative in games are worth asking, and some of the later stuff we've read has actually had interesting possible answers to those questions. But to suggest that narrative has No Place At All in academic discussions of computer games, or to suggest that all computer games can be studied in the same way and are similar enough to be grouped into one category, seems bizarre.
I know I am being a little unfair, but this book has been getting to me. Some of the responses are irritatingly catty. I want to make them go stand in the corner until they've learned to play nice.
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yeah, i totally agree. i
yeah, i totally agree. i feel like a lot of very obvious points (for example, like how you mentioned that there's a narrative element to games) are repetitively argued over and over because academia is broken down into disciplines, and academics can be very territorial over their respective fields. i see a lot of these arguments as mostly academic fights over territory and claims.
then again, we have to start somewhere, right? gaming is a relatively new subject and since there's no "field" for it yet, we might as well box it in somewhere else, have people fight over what it means, and then maybe in the future they'll create a field just for this area so that narratologists and ludologists don't keep fighting over where it belongs. i mean, isn't that how a lot of the newer academic disciplines were created? through struggle and academic in-fighting?
If you take a look at this
If you take a look at this post from Henry Jenkins' blog, he has some things to say about the argument over the differences between games and narratives and if games can have narrative aspects:
"The argument is, in my opinion, based on a false set of distinctions that are getting imposed on a hybrid medium at a highly transitional moment. (Anytime someone accuses you of "occluding" something, you know you are in trouble.) More seriously, I think the ludology/narratology debate was based on misidentifications across cultural and language differences. When Espen Aarseth and I sat down together a few years ago at the HumLab, we found that there was relatively little to debate. We were involved in disagreements in emphasis but not in a substantive dispute about the future of game studies." (taken from his "Response to Bogost (Part Two)" post)
(and there's lot more on the topic if you scroll down the post)